Jan 12 2008

Dark Night of the Soul – God’s Rite of Passage

8 responses so far

8 Responses to “Dark Night of the Soul – God’s Rite of Passage”

1. # Victoriaon 22 Jul 2008 at 11:53 am

   I have a brain disorder and have to take medication to balance my moods. It has nothing to do with the outside world or my lack of willingness to suffer for Christ. If I could take his place I would but I can’t and yes I feel sorrow for the fact he was tortured for me. I see my darkness and am taking steps to change it.
   Making a sweeping statement like that can be dangerous for people who sincerely need these life saving medications. I ask you to please remove this statement or temper it with the facts of mental health disorder.

2. # Yaholoon 22 Jul 2008 at 4:01 pm

   Victoria,

   Thank you for taking the time to respond. I realize my statement can seem cold, but I stand by reasons for putting it there. We live in a culture that believes we are entitled to be happy. Instead of seeking out the root causes of depression or sadness, we to often resort to popping pills.

   I recognize that you are upset because you feel forced to take medication because of a diagnosed condition. To be honest with you, I am a great skeptic concerning “brain disorders”, especially those supposedly effecting our ability to seek genuine spirituality, (i.e. inner peace, joy, faith, etc.).

   I can also tell you I have seen many people cured of so-called “brain disorders” by willingly deciding to endure the suffering and trust God to guide them through. This includes, severe depression, ADD, ADHD, bi-polar disorder, and even certain physical conditions such as Fibromyalgia.

   Even more so, I have witnessed first hand how medication inhibits the spirit from healing. I believe many mood adjusting drugs numb the connection to the soul, preventing the mind and spirits natural abilities to heal.

   I spend much time discussing this amongst my other peers who are involved in counseling or intervention. While my views are probably extreme, most of my peers believe medication should only be used as a last resort or as a temporary emergency solution. Considering that most people lack the guidance or true spiritual help to overcome the darkness of the world, I can understand the need to emergency medical use…. but only as a lesser evil.

   I don’t know the details of your condition, but you do say something that strikes me as odd: “It has nothing to do with the outside world or my lack of willingness to suffer for Christ. If I could take his place I would….” Even Peter, the Apostle, denied Christ, at first, when faced with suffering or “taking his place”. I myself, don’t know if I can make the claim being readily willing to suffer for Christ. In fact, most of the suffering I have done has been while kicking and screaming.

   I believe the brain is a sacred place, the connection between our body and our spirit (just talk to a Christian brain surgeon). The world wants you to believe that sadness, depression, and fear are symptoms “chemical imbalances” or physical causes. And while those condition may have physical manifestations (like serotonin levels), they are caused the spiritual sickness of our own sinful nature.

   In the end, no one can tell another person what decisions they should make. I don’t know you, nor the reality of your problems. If my opinions seem foolish to you, then you should just ignore them.

   Sincerely,
   Yaholo

3. # Diane Mcglynnon 15 Jan 2009 at 12:40 am

   I have been interested in mystic but still seeking it’s meaning however I do agree with you most do seek pills to help their depression I use to be one of those who did until one day it came to me that alot of my depresion was of my oppression so I depended on God and few years later I’m happey but sad for many who doesn’t understand what God wants from us I can’t explan it but I know what I mean please help me understand the mystical mind

4. # Ericon 21 Jul 2009 at 5:44 pm

   I am a mystic myself. i have endured the dark night now for nearly three years. For any one who would like to hear my story please catch me online at jerseyjuice12 on aim/yah. and dont tease me about the name. I have been through virtually every disorder of the brain and body, and do not take one pill. He has give me supernatural gifts that cannot be explained by medical science not even the Church sometimes. In this tiny space would be an insult to describe what this journey has been so please contact me if interested

5. # lizon 01 Aug 2009 at 10:25 am

   I love that you’ve brought this topic to a place where it can be discussed, Yaholo, but I feel you may want to revisit some of the writings you claim support the idea that everyone must go through a dark night of the soul, or that it is a place where God weeds out those not strong enough. I strongly disagree.

   I believe that the dark night of the soul is a gift that God gives to those he wishes to bring deeper and nearer to himself during their life, preparing them for eternal union with himeself. However, it is a very pricey gift. Those experiencing the dark night of the soul experience the painful feeling of separation from God. It is NOT depression. It is NOT a spiritual dry spell. The dark night of the soul is a time in which a Christian disciple of Christ desperately longs for nearness to the Lord, and worships and dedicates him or herself to the service of the Lord WITHOUT feeling nearness to God.
   It pains me to see how people jump the gun when talking to those in depressed states, trying to comfort them by telling them that they are experiencing a dark night of the soul. They probably are not.

   St. Paul of the Cross’s dark night lasted for 45 years. Mother Teresa’s dark night lasted 50 years – she died without relief of it.

   Firstthings.com puts it well here: “Even in the desolate dark night of the soul, indeed especially there, St. John of the Cross taught, God is present, purifying the soul of all passions and hindrances, and preparing her for the inconceivable blessedness of divine union. Along with dark knowing, there is dark loving, no less ardent for being deprived of all sensible and spiritual vision of the beloved. Therefore St. John can say, “Oh, night more lovely than the dawn, Oh, night that joined Beloved with lover, Lover transformed in the Beloved!””

   I just wanted to clarify the definition more. You and I may have been on the same page all along, but i feel that clarification is required and deserved.

   and further, going into the realm of opinion – Yes, spiritual and physical are DEEPLY ENTWINED. They impact each other more than we fully understand. So why would you assume then that medication is a hinderance to spiritual things? would not the gifts brought to us through medicine that improve our health also improve our ability for healthy spirituality? I strongly disagree with you. I say that medication is REDEMPTIVE, bringing about more and more life and light wherever it is used rightly.

   (i say this all for the sake of discussion and growth, and i pray my words do not cut you down or discourage you from the GREAT things you are doing and sharing with others)
   Blessings,
   Liz

6. # Yaholoon 03 Aug 2009 at 12:59 pm

   @liz

   I have great respect for any idea or opinion given with reason, even those that disagree with me. Yours is probably the most reasoned dispute I have had on my blog at this point.

   I agree, in part, with your definition of the “Dark Night of the Soul” as a time when a devout Christian will not FEEL close to God, even though God really is there and working in their lives. However, I would describe that as only one, if not the greatest, flavors of Dark Nights.

   As you described, the purpose of the Dark Night is to push us to abandon all passions and hindrances that are in our way. Most people begin their spiritual journey as progression of “sensory feedback”. They pursue God and religion because it “feels good” or offers them positive reinforcement.

   As long as we live based on these simple mechanisms of “I do something, then I feel good” we are not free in mind, body, or spirit. No matter the progress one has in faith, there will always come times when the “feel good” is taken away and it is up to our own will to choose were to go next. I consider each of these a “Dark Night” to those experiencing it.

   The profundity of St. John of the Cross’s Dark Night, is the extreme it is taken too. To think that even those who have given up all worldly comforts and focused on God, like Blessed Mother Teresa, still have to learn to continue without manifest spiritual comfort is a pain and a privilege few ever experience.

   I think medicine in general, when practiced by doctors who care, is a true blessing. I still, however, object to the idea that mind-mood altering medication is spiritually healthy. I object because I do not believe we understand the mind enough to be confident we are not “burning down the house to kill the termites” when we medicate it.

   I can acknowledge the deep attachment between the physical and spiritual sides. Studies have shown that exercise and good diet is one of the best treatments for depression AND ADD that exist. But what does that tell us other than that these disorders can come from gluttony or sloth?

   Mind-mood altering medications is are easy, it numbs us, and we become reliant on it. I have yet to see someone on these medications who didn’t have real life issues at the heart of their “conditions”. Part of the reason I said “doctors who care” is because good doctors get their patients to fix the root problems in their lives (like diet and exercise), and not just treat the symptoms.

   And I have to ask then, if these are physical conditions only, then why do the Scriptures and Jesus Christ’s teachings hold us accountable for them? Never in Scripture do we hear that “oh don’t worry, it’s just a brain disorder”. In fact, how have we been living all these centuries as a Church without drugs?

   I have faith in God, but not man. Why would you trust an industry that makes money on people being “sick” over God’s teaching about the deceitfulness of the human heart our need for SPIRITUAL redemption? We need our pain, our sadness, and our struggles to drive us to seek answers. When the answer is a pill….

7. # 1ofGODsFoolson 13 Nov 2009 at 6:44 pm

   Greeting Yaholo,

   Recently a mystic friend of mine was confused by a conversation that they had with an acquaintance who stated that they had experienced a “Dark Night of the Soul”. The mystic had read St. John of the Cross’ book and had verified that they themselves had had one of the experiences described by the book “The Dark Night of the Soul” by using St John of the Cross’ 3 signs (BookI, Chp IX), identifying with the book’s description of the experience, and then confirming it with a spiritual advisor. The mystic’s experience of a Dark Night was very different from what their acquaintance was referring to, thus the mystic’s confusion. The mystic was unaware (until recently so was I) that the phrase “the Dark Night of the Soul” is also commonly used as a metaphor based on the experience that St. John of the Cross calls “night of the spirit” in his book.

   A few weeks ago, another friend mentioned to me that they were experiencing a “Dark Night of the Soul” due to a possible bank foreclosure of their home. I understood that this friend was referring to the metaphor and not to the experience in St. John’s book. Similar to the mystic mentioned above this person didn’t realize that there are at least two meanings of the phrase “The Dark Night of the Soul” (see Wikipedia’s definition.)

   My disagreement with your article is that you are using the phrase “the Dark Night of the Soul” metaphorically, like the person whose home is in foreclosure, while at the same time referring to the book “The Dark Night of the Soul” by St. John of the Cross. Your writing potentially adds to the confusion that now exists between the actual experience described in the book and the metaphor. You state that “During this time we feel lonely, depressed, discouraged, and overwhelmed.” This is the standard metaphorical definition of a Dark Night and is not at all what St. John of the Cross is describing in his book.

   I could not find a definitive definition of the metaphor/modern-meaning of “the Dark Night of the Soul”. Without much effort, I found over a half-a-dozen different definitions of the metaphor. Compare the following definition with the cause and affects of your first paragraph and what you say to Liz as to what you consider to be a Dark Night and you will find that they are similar: “At one time or another, most people go through a period of sadness, trial, loss, frustration, or failure that is so disturbing and long-lasting that it can be called a dark night of the soul.” The author then says “If you are like most people, you have gone through several dark nights of the soul.” He then states “A dark night may not feel like depression. In a long illness or a troubled marriage you may be anxious, but not depressed. On the other hand, a clinical depression might well qualify as a dark night.” Then finally he says “A true dark night of the soul is not a surface challenge but a development that takes you away from the joy of your ordinary life.” Introduction to Dark Nights of the Soul: A guide to finding your way through life’s ordeals by Thomas Moore.

   “The Dark Night of the Soul” is not explicitly used by the St. John to describe an experience. Interestingly the phrase “Dark Night of the Soul” is found only twice in the book; once on the title page and once by the translator at the top of the introduction page (using the translation by E. Allison Peers – the same version you have a link to on your site) and in neither case does it describe anything other than the title. A “Dark Night of the Soul” is a misnomer when referring to an experience in the book, technically the author uses “night of the spirit” as the name of the experience.

   I’m pretty sure that you feel that your opinions accurately reflect the ideas in the book because you didn’t respond to Liz’ suggestion that “…you may want to revisit some of the writing you claim support…” Using St. John of the Cross’ book Dark Night of the Soul from the translation by E. Allison Peers, the following are some of the points where your opinions are erroneous or misleading when compared with the book:

   1)You say ‘all who seek …” and “all who travel …” experience the Dark Night of the soul. The book says “THIS night, which, as we say, is contemplation, produces in spiritual persons two kinds of darkness or purgation, corresponding to the two parts of man’s nature—namely, the sensual and the spiritual. And thus the one night or purgation will be sensual, wherein the soul is purged according to sense, which is subdued to the spirit; and the other is a night or purgation which is spiritual, wherein the soul is purged and stripped according to the spirit, and subdued and made ready for the union of love with God. The night of sense is common and comes to many: these are the beginners; and of this night we shall speak first. The night of the spirit is the portion of very few, and these are they that are already practised and proficient, of whom we shall treat hereafter.” Book I, Chapter VIII, part 1.

   The precise name of the experience is ‘the night of the spirit’ and it occurs to “very few”. Even if you were talking about the “dark night of the sense” which St. John says “comes to many”, it is erroneous to say “all”. The above also shows that the author is talking about two experiences not just one “spiritual process” or “period”.

   2)You mention that “This experience is testified too by latter mystics such as …” The experience described by C.S. Lewis’ and John Bunyan’s allegory (particularly the Giant Despair section) are closer related to “the night of sense” experience than a true dark night of the soul. Take the experience of “the night of the spirit” literally then compare it with the experiences in “A Grief Observed” and “A Pilgrim’s Progress” and you will see that they are not describing the same thing. It is misleading to say that all three authors are talking about the same experience.

   3)You state: “The Dark Night of the Soul is the point at which most people give up, and usually take medication”. Apart from the obvious point that it is misleading to say “most” as a generalization regarding “very few” spiritual persons. At other points, particularly in your responses to readers, you allude to depression and possibly other moods, as being a “Dark Night of the Soul”. St. John refers to melancholy (the old word for depression) 4 times [2 times on pg. 24 and 2 times on pg. 33] and humours (moods) 11 times in the book.

   Particularly on page 33 – Book II, Chp IX, part2 – he makes sure that the reader doesn’t mistake the “night of the spirit” for depression or a mood. He gives 3 signs so that the reader can determine if he/she is going through what is usually referred to as a “Dark Night of the Soul” and not a depression or a mood. The second sign is specifically geared to help the reader differentiate between the “Dark Night” and depression. It is erroneous to talk about depression or other “humour” as a synonym for a “Dark Night”. As Liz said “It is NOT depression. It is NOT a spiritual dry spell”.

   4)You stress “suffering” and it cause. Suffer and its tenses are found over 65 times in the book and there are of at least 4 different kinds described (see Book II, Chapter. VI, #4 for the 4th kind).” What you are saying about suffering is very different than what St. John is saying about suffering regarding a “dark night of the spirit” (See Book II, Chapter X). Particularly the analogy that he gives of a log and fire and the two kinds of darkness. Your use of suffering and it cause as it relates to the book is erroneous.

   5)You also stress the idea of mourning in your second and third paragraphs. A word search of the book finds no mention of mourn or any tense of the word. It is erroneous to use mourning as something that this book talks about.

   I can continue on as above almost line for line throughout your entire article and your responses. By now you are probably feeling that I’m nit-picking or that I’m picking on you. Neither is my intention. I’m not seeking to criticize but to educate. I believe that what you’re saying is not based on the experience described in the book. Your writing is based on a metaphor (similar to the one defined earlier) and that your opinion has little to do with the ‘night of the spirit’ or the book “The Dark Night of the Soul”.

   Still you may think that I’m missing your point. The following is a brief summary of my experience with the ‘dark night of the spirit’ and medication. Since that seems to be the hotbed topic of the article.

   I was a mystic, using the Oxford American Dictionary’s definition which you use on your site, for 17 years before God bestowed upon me the gift of “the night of the spirit” as described by St. John of the Cross. The experience was confirmed by using the steps I mentioned in my first paragraph and by my spiritual advisor (who at this time was 12 years into the process.)

   The first and most intense part lasted, without relief, for over 4 years and was with me every single breath that I took (awake and asleep) during that time. I read St. John’s book for the first time when I was over 2 years into the experience. It has been 12 years since the end of that initial period and the experience has changed every aspect of my life – no exaggeration – and continues without ceasing to act in me. Overall I’ve been on an active spiritual path for 33 years and in ‘the night of the spirit” for 16 years. But this does not make me an authority on the subject because the experience is the same yet different for each person who is in it.

   From the beginning, I was convinced that what I was going through was a spiritual experience; however, my wife was not so sure. My wife is a Registered Nurse and asked me for a lifetime favor while I was less than a year into what I now know is “the night of the spirit.” Because she was concerned for my life (thinking that I was clinically depressed) and knew that I didn’t take medication (even aspirin), she asked me as a favor to see a doctor and to take Prozac (a new drug at the time) for her sake. I consider my wife’s request a blessing and probably not for the reason that you think.

   The Prozac did absolutely nothing during the period that it was prescribed. Being a non coffee drinker, a cup of coffee gave me a greater reaction. I felt no different before, during, or after the Prozac. Because Prozac did not diminish or alter the experience at all, I consider Prozac’s non-affect a minor confirmation that my experience was truly “a night of the spirit”. And that is the blessing.

   As an argument you may say that I’m an exception or an extreme to what you are saying. Yes, it occurs to very few but it is not unheard of – that is why St. John of the Cross wrote the book; it is for people like Mother Teresa and for ordinary people like the mystic that I mentioned and me. Because “spiritual persons” are still being gifted the Dark Night of the Soul it is important to keep the definition separate from the metaphor particularly in mystic writings like yours.

   You are a mystic writing on mysticism; and as such, your opinion carries with it a degree of authority. With that authority comes the responsibility to be true not only to your own opinions but to those original thoughts of other mystics, like St. John of the Cross, particularly when you use their work as the basis for your comments. Like you said to Victoria: “If my opinions seem foolish to you, then you should just ignore them.”

   Sincerely yours,
   1ofGODsFools

   P.S.
   I can not comment about medications for depression because that was not my experience. Based on the book, I agree with Victoria’s and Liz’ comments and therefore respectfully disagree with you. I can’t imagine St. John of the Cross commenting about something like depression and medication that he had not personally experienced. He seems more like a “first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye” kind of guy. Matthew 7:5

8. # Yaholoon 16 Nov 2009 at 11:21 pm

   @1ofGODsFools (nice name)

   For such a studious and well written rebuttal, I am probably going to disappoint you with my response.

   This is a borderline satirical article (on a borderline satirical blog) about a commonly shared experience of darkness and suffering among those who seek the Face of God. It is not (by any stretch of imagination) a scholarly work on St. John of the Cross’s literary work.

   You are quite correct in just about everything you say regarding the St. John of the Cross’s book. I will also probably eventually write a more detailed piece on the two “Dark Nights of the Soul” in separate articles at a later time.

   The only point of this article is to hopefully prod a few people to realize there is usefulness in sadness, grief, suffering, etc. And that maybe we should endeavor to explore the spiritually of darkness, and not just run from it.

   I realized when writing this that being so blunt would offend those who have been overcome, and did not overcome, their own darkness. But then again, it is hard to make any good point on one side without offending the other.

   However, I am not without experience. Both personally and in my own experience as a mentor and counselor, I have seen the effect of “brain drugs”, especially with children, and that experience makes me all the more convinced in their harm. I have also had experience with something few other have: victory. Watching people struggle and overcome mood disorders free of drugs has shown me the potential mankind has if it only has the courage.

   http://yaholo.net/psychology/understanding-depression/

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