I just for the finished this FINALLY! I actually re-read it in it’s entirety. Very good thoughts.

The thing of it is, that it is the only organized body that is holding fast to the moral teachings of Christ.

The ideals of Christ and Scriptural teaching are being tossed to the wind by som many today. We now know of Gay Anglican Bishops and Women preaching how abortion is a blessing. The PCUSA is very easy going on moral issues… particularly fidelity in marriage. Almost the whole of protestant Christianity is lose on the topic of birth control.

We are seeing a melt down of ideals. This stems from a lack of commitment to “gospel living”. In the Evangelical circle “gospel preaching” is embraced, but the idea of living radically according to the ways of Christ is unknown. Yes, they do believe in the golden rule, but many areas and issues are left untouched. Leader worry about losing numbers and pushing people… fearing legalism.

Hopefully, the Vatican is preaching love above all. Love of God and others before ourselves is the answer to all of this. This is the basis of such a massive ideal. It is a moral code that we fail at, because we are unable to keep it in totality (all the time). However, the ideal is the northern point our compasses should turn to. Though our ships toss back and forth at times, as long as we are headed due North, we are moving in a positive direction.

I appreciate how the Catholic Church expects it’s flock to adhere to the BIGGIES, and encourages even the smaller steps in this kind of life.

I do not think it is perfect in all of it’s ways, but it is at least striving to insist excellence of living. How else will the throngs of evil be held back, if the faithful are not living faithfully? I must also admit, that there is perhaps an awful epidemic in the American Catholic arena… where are the true disciples of Christ? When you take Christ’s words seriously, suddenly you find that at least in teaching… the Catholic Church holds fast to those words about living the life.

The truth is though, the ideal is high and the road is narrow. This is why it is the road lesser traveled even by so called Christians and Catholics. Many are saying “Lord, Lord” but they do not do as he tells them to do. May we all seek the grace to live and walk as Children of light in an ever darkening world.

Blessings in the peace of Christ,
-g-

No cheap shot intended, I simply needed you to directly address the article so that I would be able to respond without leading a discussion off topic. I appreciate your follow up responce.

The idea I am proposing is the need for a moral standard, held at the highest possible level, kept alive for the sake of the collective sub-conscience. Without those standards, our society would be completely unrestrained in it’s fall down into amoral chaos.

Even if you are correct in saying the Vatican needs “absolute forgiveness” it had no baring on the validity of my currently proposed need for a moral ideal, which is why I had to ask if you read the article. Jesus Himself said He would not remove “one letter from the Law” and Paul taught us that the Law, while offering no salvation, presents the standard by which we all know we are in need of God’s Grace.

I have said nothing in this article regarding any judgements of those who fail to live up to the moral idea. I have also admitted that I, myself, do not. Additionally, whithin that failure (or dare we say*gasp* sin) I live very much accepted and loved in The Catholic Church.

Once again, for forgivess to exist, there must first be a trespass. You have not said anything regarding a change in the Vatican toward forgiveness, you have only said the Vatican should remove the trespass. Everyone loves quoting Jesus saying “let he who is without sin throw the first stone” but fail to mention what he says next to the adulterer, “go and sin no more”. Jesus forgave her, but still maintained the moral standard.

(I believe that Christians are governed internally by informed conscience and guided externally by the Church, so they are not solely reliant on the church to provide them with rules and punishments.)

Then you argue that if birth control was accepted, as Pope Paul’s advisory panel recommended, then human life would no longer be sacred or special. ?!?

You describe the church as an ideal, but also as one that can be realized. Which is it??

Yaholo, did you read my response? My whole point is that you and the hierarchy that you defend have embraced only half of the message — absolute morality without absolute forgiveness.

Would there be such a thing as Christianity if Jesus had cast the first stone at the adulteress? He did not fail to acknowledge sin, as you say, but he acknowledged the inherent imperfection in us.

Yaholo, I’m sorry if my response looks like a venting at the Vatican to you. Yours looks like blind obedience to a human institution, rather than its divine inspiration, to me.

Also, why the cheap shots? Do you really think that I did not read you article or that I misunderstood the church’s position on divorce?

Thanks for responding.

I first must ask, and please forgive the directness, if you read this article at all, or just thought it looked like a good place to “Vent about the Vatican”. I also have to wonder about your information, since a divorced Catholic can receive communion (after confession), and the real “no no” isn’t the divorce, but the remarriage. A divorced individual can be in good standing in the Catholic Church if they stay single.

But to the point – The question I am trying to ask is, what would the world look like if those standards disappeared. Forgiveness implies a previous wrong-doing, it would seem you are not advocating forgiveness, but elimination of the acknowledgment of sin in the first place.

The church has diminished Jesus’ Gospel by preaching a complicated set of rules that is absolute (divorce is sinful), but not forgiving (divorced Catholics cannot receive Communion.)

Jesus was outraged by the legalistic Pharisees, as many of us are outraged by a legalistic Vatican. Did Jesus intend a church run by canon lawyers?

I’m concerned that the church is alienating spiritual people who hope to live Christ-like lives, but who do not see anything Christ-like about some of the church’s rules.

In recent years, the church has angered many homosexuals, Jews, and Muslims, not because of its morality, but because of its perceived immorality.

An absolute, judgmental, legalistic, homophobic, misogynistic church is not a city on a hill.

As a Catholic, I hope that my church will always follow God’s rules and Christ’s example.

Unfortunately, it sometimes takes a while for the church to canonize some of those who were once deemed heretics or to realize that the earth revolves around the sun and not vice versa.